Postoji još jedan tekst u AMuS-u:

No Engine Development at Red Bull

..koji govori nešto drukčiju priču. Možda je istina negdje u sredini. RB razvija sam svoj ERS sustav, i još neke sisteme na bolidu. Bog zna što je u toj cijeloj priči istina i što se krije oko svega. No gdje ima dima ima i vatre.

Mr.Spaceguy je napisao/la:RBR ne moze preci na Hondine motore jer jasno postoji klauzula u ugovoru izmedu McLarena i Honde. Tako da te spike da FIA moze narediti Hondi da opskrbljavaju RBR padaju u vodu. Nije Eccelstone rekao bez razloga da je Denis stavio veto na odluku Honde te da on i fia ne mogu ništa po tome pitanju. Šta je bilo s onim da RBR nije raskinuo ugovor s Renaultom te da bi njih Renault morao opskrbljivati po ugovoru. Po svemu sudeci RBR leti iz formule 1 barem na godinu dana.

Honda ima sa FiA-om dogovor o isporučivanju motora dvjema ekipama u drugoj i trima u trećoj sezoni. To im je bio uslov za ulazak u F1, jer po FiA-i moraju ponuditi motore i drugim ekipama. Ovi su se pravdali da ne mogu odmah ponuditi, pa je pao taj dogovor za drugu i treću sezonu.
Tako da se dovodi u pitanje važnost tog Ronovog veta.
A po meni tu FiA može im čak i zaprijetiti izbacivanjem ako ne poštuju taj dogovor. Tako da nebi ni McLaren imao na čemu voziti ako budu blokirali Red Bull. A Honda bi svakako željela ispuniti taj dogovor...

A ovo za rebrand Renaulta ima smisla. Sjećate se da je Red Bull sa startom ove ere V6 motora tražio upravo ovo. Da mogu uzeti nečiji motor i rebrandirati ga. I FiA ih je odbila. Vjerovatno su već tada žaljeli uzeti Renaultov motor i ove električne dijelove sami raditi pod rebrandom. Ali sad kad raskidaju sa Renaultom, to će biti malo drugačija stvar. Renaultov motor će biti samo osnova, a ne rebrand. Odnosno neće to biti samo drugo ime na Renautovom motoru, nego potpuno njihov projekat. A vjerovatno je zapelo na tome šta je čije, jer je dosta toga uradio i njihov Mario Illien. Dobro je ako su riješili te stvari sa Renaultom. Biće zanimljivo u svakom slučaju.
U tom slučaju mislim da će Red Bull bez problema razbiti tvornički Renault

Što se tiče ovog AMuS-ovog teksta, Illen je samo demantirao da je ova zadnja Renaultova nadogradnja njegovo djelo. A nisam ni mislio da jest. Prvo jer ne donosi neku veliku prednost. Što znači da je sigurno Renaultova. Drugo zbog priča da je Illenova nadogradnja trebala donijeti puno bolje performanse. Ali ju je Renault odbio.

Jean Todt je izjavio da jedino sto moze napraviti je pokusati nagovoriti Denisa da ukine veto.

Novi tekst:

RED BULL’S 2016 PU: THE PIECES OF THE PUZZLE



Well its the day after the day before – TJ13 captured the eyes of many in Formula One yesterday with our revelation that Red Bull Racing will be building their own Formula One engines in partnership with Mario Illien of Ilmor. This story has since spawned a number of articles on the matter, two are worthy of particular note.

Here’s an excellent article from Matt Somerfield of SomersF1, describing in detail some of the recent work Mario Illien has been involved in along with his recent connections to the Renault F1 power unit programme: A Red Bull powered Red Bull

Mark Hughes of MotorSport Magazine also weighed in with a piece well worth reading, charting some of Mario Illein’s F1 history and previous involvement with Adrian Newey: The Story behind Red Bull’s 2016 engine

Michael Schmidt of AMuS wrote a rebuttal titled, “No engine development at Red Bull”. However, Schmidt’s article has no outright denial that Red Bull will be using their own power unit next year, he merely criticises the detail of one or two of TJ13 assertions.

The notion that Red Bull Racing could run an ‘unbranded’ power unit in 2016 was not something TJ13 revealed yesterday. Andrew Benson of the BBC speculated as much during the weekend of the Austin GP. But what is an unbranded F1 engine?

Having had limited success in the 1960’s, Porsche withdrew from Formula One but were persuaded by McLaren’s John Barnard to develop an engine which debuted in 1983. Porsche were however nervous about putting their name to an F1 engine, in case it was a failure, so TAG funded the project and retained the naming rights to the engine. Whilst not an ‘unbranded’ engine, this idea is not too dissimilar to Andrew Benson’s proposal that Red Bull will run an engine with no name in 2016 – that engine being a Renault F1 power unit.

We now run into terminology difficulties, because the modern V6 Turbo hybrid F1 engines are no longer really engines. They are in fact power units comprising of ICE (internal combustion engine), Turbo, Control Electronics, Energy Store, MGU-K and MGU-H components. So what was the reality behind the ‘unbranded’ F1 power unit that Red Bull will be running?

Red Bull have previously demonstrated their expertise in KERS technology, as they provided the units which were bolted onto the Renault V8. Further, they developed the original energy store (ES), which was fitted to the Renault power unit inside the RB10. So it’s not out of the question that RBR have built on their previous experience in hybrid know how and invested in the R&D to deliver an MGU-H and Control Electronics unit. This is after all the organisation that crashed tested a new nose design more than 60 times to get it right.

This then leaves the internal combustion engine (ICE), often still referred to as ‘the engine’. TJ13 has been informed that Red Bull Racing will use the lower part of the Renault V6 engine and fit on top a Mario Illien head. This Illien design is already believed to deliver an incremental 40BHP more than the upgraded Renault power unit set to debut in at least one RBR car in Brazil.

So when we consider the proposed RBR 2016 ‘unbranded’ power unit, the question is – how much of it is a Renault?

Answer: Not very much

However, for descriptive purposes it is the lower part of the ICE, or the block, is for now the component that remains as Renault’s contribution. The Renault engine block will form the core of the RBR PU. Additional components developed by RBR include a new cylinder head, turbo, CE, MGU-K and MGU-H units all of which will then require ‘harmonisation.’

This is why Milton Keynes developed ‘building 9’, dug down into the ground two stories and installed a multi million pound AVL rig – a virtual test track used by auto manufacturers to test their engines in situ. A chassis manufacturer does make this kind of mega investment unless they have intentions on a much larger scale. This story was also reported exclusively by TJ13 some months ago.

The AMuS article claiming there is no Red Bull engine programme had just one quote from someone involved in the building 9 RBR developments. This was from Mario Illien himself who said: “I know nothing of a dispute I also have no idea what upgrades Renault has incorporated in its modified engine Also, I can not imagine that a large company like Renault would risk secretly installing [in their engine] my developments.” This is in response to the fact that TJ13 reported there had been some wrangling between Renault and Red Bull over intellectual property.

Clearly, if Red Bull Racing are going to take part of the 2015 Renault power unit and then develop their own PU going forward, serious conversations over intellectual property have most definitely been had.

At times the speed of a denial and the specific aspects of the denial tells a tale in itself. One could surmise from Schmidt’s AMuS response, which is over 95% Schmidt comment and less than 5% quoted sources, that he is peeved at not being the one to reveal the details of Red Bull’s 2016 PU plans.

Further, the TJ13 comments about Intellectual Property clearly raised some concerns in certain quarters, soliciting a remarkably quick response from Illien.

The bottom line is Red Bull are in effect about to become an F1 engine manufacturer, despite having denied this time and time again. It will be fascinating to see how the FIA treat the RBR power unit. Will they get ‘new manufacturer’ allowances as did Honda, or will Red Bull be deemed to be developing out an existing F1 engine which has previously been homologated by the FIA.

Ja i dalje ne vidim nikakvog smisla da RBR pređe na Hondine motore...uopće ne razumijem takve rumorse.

Ocaj.

Gordijski čvor se lagano raspetljava.. nakon svih onih informacija i dimnih signala ipak se nešto nazire iz svega toga.
Ferrari je u razgovorima sa RB i to dugoročno, no ne kao direktni prodavač agregata već su-partner-pomagač.
Direktor Ferrarija Sergio Marchionne izjavljuje kako bi se vjerovatno radilo partnerstvo u obliku da Ferrari svojom tehnologijom pomogne RB-u da sagradi svoj agregat. Na taj način bi RB bio intelektualni vlasnih agregata, no sa tehničkom podrškom Ferrarija. Kako će to biti izvedeno u ugovoru i koje će prednosti/koristi imati jedni i/ili drugi to se za sad ne zna. U svakom slučaju mogli bi imati političku jačinu u daljnjim odlukama i smjerovima F1. Mislim da je tu glavni Ferrarijev interes.

Friški intervju gdje Sergio Marchionne govori o tome možete pročitati:

Ferrari offers Red Bull new engine idea

Nadovezujem se na gornji post...

Izašao je i TheJudge13 tekst sa Marchionnovim izjavama:

Mischievous Marchionne offers Red Bull an engine

Najbolji komentar..
https://twitter.com/SomersF1/status/663723133904494592

Našli su ekipu koji su porobili RBR..

F1 Red Bull Racing robbery: Thieves jailed

[ link do slike ]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xwq9SVGiqU[/youtube]

Napokon, hvala Bogu više. Kakvi su to talibani, nevjerojatno

A još su bili gori komentari nekih vrlo bistrih članova, koji su to komentirali s veseljem.

Explorer je napisao/la:Napokon, hvala Bogu više. Kakvi su to talibani, nevjerojatno

A još su bili gori komentari nekih vrlo bistrih članova, koji su to komentirali s veseljem.

Vjerojatno talibani sličnih gabarita i kvaliteta od ovih gore priloženih.
..mogu se kladit da je barem jedan ko jaje jajetu.

Joj faca, majko mila. Kakvi likovi.
A Boga mi, presude nisu malene.

Još kada vidiš kako su bacili trofej iz Monaca
Pa ja bi samo to uzeo i pobjegao

[ link do slike ]


Red Bull potpisuje još jedan jaki spoznzor Simens i to do 2018g., što je još jedan znak kako taj tim ostaje u svijetu F1 do daljnjeg.
https://twitter.com/f1fanatic_co_uk/status/669476935341330432 _____________

Red Bull engine saga close to make-or-break point - Mateschitz

Dva nova sponzora za Red Bull mora biti znakovito. RB-VW za 2017. izgleda kao vrlo izvjestan slijed događanja.

Jbt, Tag Heuer pa Siemens.. velike su to firme i kompanije, i sumnjam da bi ulazile u ovaj biznis da Red Bull ne sprema nešto vrlo kompetetivno za sljedeću sezonu Možda nas sve iznenade!

Ako ništa drugo, barem su si osigurali egzistenciju. Već je napisano, ne bi takve firme kao što su Tag i Siemens potpisivale s momčadi koja nema garantiranu budućnost. Puno ljudi omalovažava ovu momčad, "oni nisu prava momčad, oni samo obična tvornica pića" i sl., ali Red Bull je veoma bitan dio Formule 1 i u relativno kratkoj su povijesti napravili puno toga i barem po meni, njihov odlazak bio bi velika šteta.

Eh, da se još hoće Siemens vratiti pravljenju mobitela.

senja je napisao/la:Eh, da se još hoće Siemens vratiti pravljenju mobitela.