Kako god, Ferrari je nakon dobre dvije prilike sad na dobrom zaostatku od Mercedesa. Kako konstruktorskom tako i vozačkom

Morat cu se složit sa ledenim. Očekivao sam koju desetinku manje ali naravno i dalje iza benza. Ovaj njihov kiks se morao iskoristit na najbolji način. Ovo je jedini način da se Mercedes dobije. Drugi put će biti drugačija staza i bolji start a onda nakon dobre završene utrke će i dalje biti tu gdje su završili u ove dvije utrke...
Iako je tek start sezone vidi se da je Ferrarijev PU možda najnepouzdaniji na gridu. Nije nikakva slučajnost da je Kimi zajedno sa jednim Haasom odustao u prvoj utrci a Vettel zajedno sa istim Haasom u drugoj.

Za sad imamo dvije velike pobjede Mercedesa koje su mogle rezultirat i sa duple dvije pobjede da Hamilton nije imao utrku kakvu je imao danas. Prilika je bila ali nije iskorištena na najbolji način
Ja sam svakako za brz i nepouzdan bolid nego obrnuto ali nažalost živimo u drugim vremenima i ta nepouzdanost se veliko plaća, kaznama budućima kojima čak i da dobiju neće moći iskoristiti

Nije da se ne slažem s ovim za PU, samo bih htio napomenuti da je Steiner rekao da današnje Guttierezovo odustajanje nije imalo veze s motorom nego (ako sam ga dobro razumio) nešto nije štimalo s nosom/prednjim krilom ali da niti on još nije u potpunosti izvješten o situaciji.

Ja ne znam sta vi hocete? Dominaciju Ferrarija? Na startu odmah pobjede i zalijevanjem sampanjcom? Budimo realni, Ferrari je napravio ogroman iskorak, daleko najveci od svih. Prosle sezone na podijumu smo gledali ne samo Ferrari i Mercedes, vec i Red Bull, no ove sezone sem kvarova nekih necemo gledati takve situacije, jer su mnogi podbacili. I nisu samo podbacili, vec je Mercedes jos vise napredovao, samo ne naspram Ferrarija! Vec 2 utrku, Mercedes se bori sa Ferrarijem, Rosberg da nije taktizirao i usao ranije u box, izasao bi iza Kimija, uslijedio bi fajt ali dostojan, a ne ono brutalno zaobilazenje Mercedesa.

U Australiji manjak srece je ucinio svoje, sta bi se desilo da nije bilo SC-a? Sa onakvom voznjom Vettela 1 pozicija se ne bi sanjala, pa makar i druga pozicija, kako god odlicna je.

Greska Kimija na startu je kostala mozda i prve pozicije, no hajde necemo pretjerivat i da nije bila, onako probijanje sa 8 pozicije je fenomenalno. Na kraju sa istim gumama zadrzat jedan Mercedes iza sebe je fantastican rezultat, ni Rosberg nije mnogo odaglio, znaci u ovom bolidu ima potencijala.

Druga stvar, motor je najvaznija karika, Ferrari da bi dostigao Mercedes mora ici radikalno, moraju naci rjesenje adekvatno za Mercedes, no takva rjesenja znaju da nose i dio rizika, pa evo McLaren trpi zbog ogranicenja pravila, no Ferrari niie u banani tolikoj, pa u prosloj utrci Vettel 3, u ovoj Kimi 2! Kako ne mozete biti zadovoljni s time? Tek je 2 utrka prosla, jos se nije ovaj motor "razradio", a da ima potencijal, to je Romain demonstrirao, kao i Vettel proslu utrku.

Treba biti samo svjestan da timovi imaju pisljivih 30 tokena za caprkanje po motoru, pa to isto da plivas jednom rukom i ocekujes medalju! No i sa jednom rukom dolazis do podijuma, pa jbt vama ako to nije dovoljno onda ne znam.

Mercedea nije sjedio skrtenih ruku i cekao Ferrari da napreduje, naravno da su oni jos vise radili na tome, no napredak njih i Ferrarija nije isti. Mercedes je do prije godinu - dvije imao prednost 1,5 s, sad imaju 0,3, pa svi znate sta znaci 1 stoti dio sekunde, a kamo li sekunda!

Treba imat malo strpljenja, Ferrari ne moze preko noci u ovakvim uslovima preskocit Mercedes, no sa ovakvim radom i tempom 2017 je njihova godina, a ova mogu biti mnogo veci trn u oku Mercedesu. Pa vec smetaju pri dvoboju Rosberg i Hamilton, Merđosi nece vise tek tako lako da se vozikaju po stazi, mozda hoce pobjedjivati, ali ne i dominirati.

...samo se nadam da se neće nastaviti ovaj niz odustajanja.. u suprotnom ode svaki tračak nade za dobivanje sezone. Potencijal je tu, bez govora, no bude li im ovako otkazivala mašina jednostavno deficit i kazne penala na kraju godine napravit će važan faktor, pa čak i ako budu dominantni u ostatku sezone.

I ja sam za to da odvrću ventil jer će jedino tada najadekvatnije ispitati ove novotarije za sustizanje Mečki, bez obzira na posljedice.. i to je jedan način utrke, samo u tehničkom segmentu. Da je mučno gledati odustajanje.. pogotovo kad misliš da će pobijedit.. bome je.

Mišljenja sam da će Kimiju na VN Kine riknuti motor, ali kao što je rekao Slavenowsky radikalna rešenja su potrebna za dostizanje Mercedesa.

Nemam ništa protiv radikalnosti, ali pouzdanost moraš imati...bilo bi bolje da su štedili PU prvih nekoliko utrka i došli do sigurnog 3 i 4. mjesta pa kada dođe upgrade onda napasti 1 i 2.
Ovako je to jalovo...imaš brzinu, dobru šasiju, a bodovima si već u velikom zaostatku. Nisi ništa napravio i još si unio nesigurnost u tim i vozače da guraju taj bolid do kraja kada bude trebalo.
Ovo se pod hitno mora riješiti jer nema puno smisla, ako gubiš PU-ove i bodove.

Štediti PU, doći do sigurnog mjesta...
A gdje su tu performanse?

hattrick je napisao/la:...samo se nadam da se neće nastaviti ovaj niz odustajanja.. u suprotnom ode svaki tračak nade za dobivanje sezone. Potencijal je tu, bez govora, no bude li im ovako otkazivala mašina jednostavno deficit i kazne penala na kraju godine napravit će važan faktor, pa čak i ako budu dominantni u ostatku sezone.

I ja sam za to da odvrću ventil jer će jedino tada najadekvatnije ispitati ove novotarije za sustizanje Mečki, bez obzira na posljedice.. i to je jedan način utrke, samo u tehničkom segmentu. Da je mučno gledati odustajanje.. pogotovo kad misliš da će pobijedit.. bome je.

Ha slušaj, bolje da rikne nesto na startu, nego na kraju utrke, pa da cupamo kose, jer propade sansa za postolje. Koliko god to glupo zvucalo, no i dalje je prihvatljivo, najbolje je da se ovakve stvari desavaju na startu sezone, jer duga je sezona.

Mene jedino malo muci, da Ferrari ne radi nesto slicno kao McL, mazu navijacima oci, kako je sve ok, kako nemaju problema sa motorom, da se bore za titulu, a situacija na stazi to bas i ne potvrdjuje, no raduje me da je na Kimijevom bolidu napokon sve funkcionisalo, da je Kimi isto tako stiskao u Bahrainu, sto znaci da ovaj motor nema problema.

Ferrari je potrosio najvise tokena, sa tim se jasno vidi napredak u brzini Ferrarija, ovo sto je prostalo treba samo da se sredi pouzdanost, a samim time i aerodinamika bi trebala doci svjeza, bice svega, samo treba biti malo strpljiv, Ferrari je zbog Allisona i njegove (na zalost) tragedine u malom hendikepu, takve stvari mogu malo da koce tim, no takve stvari treba razumjeti.

Treba cekat strpljivo Spaniju, navodno tad slijedi jedan velik update sa aerodinamikom i mahanikom.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... py_at_all/
A gdje će i biti.....

Ali ipak demantuju "fundamentalne probleme sa pouzdanošću"
http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... w_rumours/

Navodno (kako kazu tweeterasi) Vettel dobija novi motor u Kini!???

Updateani motor ili?

Ne, vec ovu specifikaciju sto imaju i da ce upravo zbog toga Vettel update-ovani motor dobiti tek nekad kasnije! Ako bude tako, onda ce biti malo gusto. No opet i ovaj motor nije los, Vettelu je bitno da se drzi izmedju Hamiltona i Rosberga i da skuplja bodove. Ovo su sad za sad samo spekulacije, nadam se da nisu tacne

[ link do slike ]

Došli su do zaključka što je u biti bio pravi uzrok kvara na Vettelovom bolidu pri inicalnoj fazi utrke.
Pravi problem je bio u elektoronskom mapiranju rada pri niskim brzinama, što je uzrokovalo kvar ispušnog ventila.

The part that failed was an exhaust valve, but interestingly Ferrari technicians believe that this was the end result of the problem rather than the cause.

They believe that a problem with the engine parameters, linked to electronics management, while it was running at low speed triggered a set of circumstances that pushed the valve beyond its normal operating parameters, and caused the failure.

Ferrari's belief that an electronics issue was to blame would explain why the technicians had not discovered any problem with the power unit before the race.

Had there been any hint of concern then Ferrari would not have hesitated in changing the engine before the start.

Izvor

Uz to što će Vettel dobiti novu mašinu za VN Kine, u Ferrariju su sada sigurni kako nemaju problem u osnovnom dizajnu mašine, što je možda najbitnije od svega. Problem oko mapiranja agregata u nižim brzinama biti će uklonjen za sljedeću utrku, te nema ovaj kvar nikakve povezanosti sa problemom koji je nedavno imao Kimi na svom bolidu.

...eto, bilo bi lijepo da se to također stavi na news početnu stranicu portala, kako bi se razjasnilo što je bilo sa novom Ferrarijevom mašinom.

Kakva šljampavost...shebali motor jer su ga krivo mapirali.
Misle li napasti Merc ovakve stvari se moraju riješiti jer gube bodove.

Bahrain also SF16-H FERRARI used the "BUTTON MAGIC!"


For those who last year had wondered why other teams like Ferrari, do not they adopted a system of "magic button" in-house Mercedes, we can answer that it all had to be born from the original design of the Power Unit and the changes necessary to avoid compromising the engines during operation in overboost would be too great to be dealt with.

Finally, since the middle of last season, in Maranello had started working on the new Power Unit 2016, also focusing development on this particular use of the electric generator MGU-H and BOOST mode to be exploited at least for the first half of the season especially in qualifying, because it was there where the SF15-T was paying much gap against the W06 Hybrid.

And finally in Bahrain, officially debuted on SF16-H the magic button made in Maranello. Mapping which is not yet in the most aggressive version, as to what we have been told, the increase in power stood around to "only" 20 hp (and there is still margin).

FERRARI SF16-H: 3:00 to 4:00 tenths Bahrain but only for two laps!
As far as we know, the onset of this particular mapping remained in doubt until the last, because the technicians of the Italian team after the fail of the turbine in the first Grand Prix of the season, they were not sure that the new power unit could bear this increase performance; in fact, they are linked, as previously written, the boost pressure of the turbocharger group, the real problem of the Italian new drive unit.

In fact, is the turbocharger group that technicians of the Italian team are working very hard now for a few weeks; problem then unfortunately has a direct impact on the hybrid part of the new Italian Power Unit.


At Maranello last winter a choice was made: to be able to maximize the power unit endothermic has opted for a large blower, produced externally by Honeywell supplier. Apparently, however, the size of that was incorrect and the current problems linked to the turbine are many and important. Having a very large turbine means having a big effect called "turbo lag" or "turbo lag". Then starting from the low and mid range, current Formula 1 turbocharged V6 engines to solve the big problem of turbo lag is used, thanks all'MGU-H which acts as a motor, the energy stored in the battery that helps put the right range of operation in terms of rotation of the turbine speed. But this energy, formerly recovered, it is as if "wasted", since otherwise it could be downloaded in the form of CV through the other electric motor, the MGU-K.

E 'for this reason, ie to preserve the integrity of the turbocharger, the engineers of the Italian team did not want to exceed the number of kilometers performed with the particular very aggressive mapping. Vettel and Raikkonen in fact, have been able to enjoy the new BOOST, built in Bahrain thanks to a new software, for just two laps then only about 10 km.

Raikkonen raced weakened in some stages of the race!
Now, thanks to a fast but careful analysis of Leonardo Fiorentino in our article the analysis of the second race of the season, we want to show how the speed has changed in the three sectors of the qualifying session and the race.

qualifying session with BOOST mapping, while in the race, even for a lot of laps, Kimi was shot with a mapping much more "safe", from about 25 bhp less than the Ferrari classic mapping. To give you the numbers, with the latter configuration, Ferrari pays instead about 10 horsepower Mercedes; gap increases when Hamilton and Rosberg also exploit the BOOST during certain stages of the Grand Prix (example: on the first flying lap coming out of the pit stop).

Maximum speed - Qualification:

1st sector Vettel Rosberg 251.4 252.9
2nd sector Raikkonen Hamilton 277.6 277.7
3rd sector Vettel Hamilton 297.2 301.5

maximum speed - Race:

1st sector Raikkonen Hamilton 238.6 246.1
2nd sector Rosberg Raikkonen 254.7 256.6
3rd sector Raikkonen Hamilton 297.7 302.0

The Shakir circuit has a first sector where, apart from the first curve, very slow, there are two straights of which one very long and where the power of the power unit is critical. And the numbers listed above, call for tender, SF16-H paid nearly 8 km / h from Mercedes to Speed ​​Trap of the first sector. To conclude the analysis of the Bahrain circuit, the second area is a mixture of medium-curves - fast, where Ferrari has performed very well over the weekend and where the SF16-H from the GPS data was stronger than even the W07. The last segment is another straight a 90 ° bend and then straight to the finish.

And if the problem in qualifying on the energy stored in the battery does not exist because the batteries are always charged to the maximum, and turbocharger for a single spin can also withstand the high number of laps without major problems, the energy starts in the race in short supply, and the turbocharger is affected by the mechanical and thermal stresses, though continually stressed at high speeds needed to maximize energy recovery from MGU-H.

The 8 km h gap that had been created in some stages of the race (it was little more than 1 km / h in qualifying), it can be explained by the fact that once past the finish line with the battery rather download, performing curve 1 rather narrow and slow, there was with the little energy recovered during braking, to be used both to win the turbo lag that for the early stages of acceleration. But too much energy required to win the turbo lag, was almost immediately terminate the electrical energy with consequent generation of much lower speed than in the case of the classification. And indeed, we think that from a certain point on the straight, Ferrari went even recovering energy with H, useful energy then, in the later parts of the circuit.

In conclusion, until it is updated the Italian Power Unit, it is good that the team understands that it is useless to risk too much to get still in third place, although a little closer to the Mercedes duo. In these moments, even a noble team like Ferrari must learn to be content, waiting for better times!

Eto sve je rečeno u zadnjoj rečenici. Sve super što se zna koji je problem, gdje je problem i kada će problem biti riješen (vrlo "zanimljivo" što ovakve info uvijek dobivamo veznao uz Ferrari, ali nikada ili gotovo nikada vezano uz drugog proizvođača).

Raikkonen finished just six seconds behind race winner Nico Rosberg, although the German admitted he was managing his pace at the front.

I onda kada mi počnete govoriti kako bi se Vettel borio za pobijedu u Bahreinu.....
U Maranellu još treba malo zasukati rukave prije nego što počnemo govoriti tko bi dobio koga....

[ link do slike ]


Vettel’s blown Bahrain engine is beyond repair

Sebastian Vettel is down to four power units for the remaining 19 races this year, following his smoky retirement on the parade lap in Bahrain.

Earlier, the Ferrari media insider Leo Turrini said the problem had been traced to an injector, but he now clarifies that the fault was actually caused by “a bug on the electronic mapping”. That is good news for the Maranello team, as the fix will presumably be easier.

“It was an electronic problem rather than the failure of a mechanical part,” agreed a report in La Repubblica newspaper.

The report explained that the electronic glitch occurred in a certain gear at precise revs “causing a sort of blackout that affected the engine” so badly that it was damaged “irreparably”.

“In China, Seb switches to power unit two”, Turrini wrote in a follow-up post on his Quotidiano blog.

Meanwhile, La Gazzetta dello Sport reports that Ferrari is working on an innovative system for its F1 ‘power unit’ called HCCI that would help the team track down Mercedes’ power advantage, particularly in qualifying.
- LINK objašnjenja na našoj temi.
Whether it will come quick enough for Sebastian Vettel’s 2016 title challenge is unclear, but F1 legend Gerhard Berger said the German will not lose his cool.

“Seb will not lose his patience,” the former F1 driver told Sport Bild. “He did not think he would have such a good first year, so I assume that he was ready to say the world championship would take three years.”

But F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone said alarmingly this week that he thinks Mercedes’ current advantage is so great that Ferrari will not win a title by 2020.

Vettel replied: “My contract is not even that long, so that’s the first thing I need to sort out! Apart from that, by then I will already be an old man.”

“So yes, I am confident,” he smiled when asked if he can win the title soon.

___________________________________
___________________________________

Ferrari suffering pain now, but fixes could bring Mercedes into its sights

The engine failure for Sebastian Vettel in Bahrain was certainly a painful blow to Ferrari, dropping Vettel 35 points behind Nico Rosberg already and costing the team the chance to stay in touch with Mercedes in the Constructors’ Championship.

By pushing the envelope on the engine, these are the risks that Ferrari decided to take in seeking to bridge the gap to Mercedes from 2015 to this year. But there could be good news on the horizon.

An injector failure is being discussed as the cause of Vettel’s failure, the damage likely to be severe enough for the four time champion to need a new unit for the next event in China. This is not the end of the world, as the teams have five engines for the 2016 season, despite there only being two more races than in 2015, when they had four. So there is some room for manoeuvre.

Perhaps more significant is the development which is coming for the team on the turbo, which was due for China and has now been pushed back to Spain, while the customer teams will get it for Austria.

This will fix a problem whereby vibrations from the turbo, which is seeking to spin at very high speeds, are causing the unit to overheat. Ferrari has not been able to exploit the full potential of its unit as a result and has had to run more conservatively.

Bahrain however showed that they have made strides on the control electronics side and the speeds they were achieving show that, once the turbo issue is fixed, there will be little to choose between the Ferrari and the Mercedes on power.

The problem is that they have already lost this early ground in both championships and cannot get it back.

If we think back to the two four-day tests in Barcelona, Mercedes had everyone guessing by covering very high mileages on the medium tyres, not going for lap times, but going for reliability. This has paid off in the opening rounds and the only points dropped are the three Hamilton did not pick up for second place rather than third in Bahrain, after a tangle on the opening lap caused car damage.

Iceman je napisao/la:Eto sve je rečeno u zadnjoj rečenici. Sve super što se zna koji je problem, gdje je problem i kada će problem biti riješen (vrlo "zanimljivo" što ovakve info uvijek dobivamo veznao uz Ferrari, ali nikada ili gotovo nikada vezano uz drugog proizvođača).

Raikkonen finished just six seconds behind race winner Nico Rosberg, although the German admitted he was managing his pace at the front.

I onda kada mi počnete govoriti kako bi se Vettel borio za pobijedu u Bahreinu.....
U Maranellu još treba malo zasukati rukave prije nego što počnemo govoriti tko bi dobio koga....

U Bahrainu ne, ali u Australiji itekako da!

Ferrari je potrosio najvise tokena, nekako mi se cini da je ovaj motor nakljukan proteinima, no kondiciono nije bas spreman (laicki receno). Moze se reci za relativno kratko vrijeme Ferrari je modifikovao motor, njegovo evoluiranje se i ocekuje kroz sezonu, opet cu reci, rani kvarovi su mi vise prihvatljiviji na pocetku sezone, nego da stagniraju na pola. Ovaj motor ima potencijal, brzine itekako ima, aerodinamika je isto kljican faktor koji jos niie nadogradjen. Steta je sto Vettel nece moci dobiti novu specifikaciju motora u Spaniji, no ako Ferrari poradi na aerodinamici deficit u brzini se moze nadomjestit istom, samo naravno u koliko nisu trkace staze.

U Bahrainu Ferrari je vozio bolje prvi sektor, a to je sektor koji iziskuje bolji downforce, dok su na otvorenim dijelovima Mercedesi bili bolji, dakle meni dovoljno.

ne bih baš rekao da je S1 sektor u kojem dominira aeropaket, imaš start cilj pravac cca 400-500m, dvije krivine i opet pravac do 4 krivine, barem 600m dug ako ne i više, posle nje imaš zafrkan izlaz i mjerenje je na kočenju u one S krivine i tu počinje S2, downforce krivine koje iziskuju dobar balans i zadnji kraj, jer zone trakcije su jako duge, što je razlog zašto su zadnje gume kritične na ovoj stazi. Onda na kraju S3 opet motor igra ulogu jer u njemu imaš krivinu pred pravac, pravac od cca 700m, zadnju krivinu i nekih 300-400m do cilja. Mada u S1 su sva 4 vozača vozila 28.3 koliko se sjećam, tako da su tu negdje, dok je msm treći sektor dosta odlučio kad su Mečke izišle drugi krug, te je to vjerovatno ono o čemu se priča, Ferrari nema kvali snagu, onu u jednom krugu kao Mercedes, ali na trkama ih mogu namučiti itekako, Kimi je imao extra tempo, da je kojim slučajem starto kako treba, teško Rosbergu.
slažem se za ovo oko proteina/snage i kondicije/pouzdanosti. Mada pouzdanost je koliko sam shvatio softverske prirode, ne hardverske, griješim li ?