Povijest F1

šŸ•’ Razgovori o proÅ”lim vremenima, mjesto za iskusne članove.

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HeatBlast44
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na danaŔnji dan, 1993, Ayrton Senna je odradio vjerovatno najbolji start svih vremena :)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GOEorrE4mY[/youtube]

Omiljena utrka u Kini odabrana od strane fanova

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utAhrJDwWfQ[/youtube]

te famozni Brazil 2012

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jZQMQVnCZI[/youtube]
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fjaka
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HeatBlast44 je napisao/la:na danaŔnji dan, 1993, Ayrton Senna je odradio vjerovatno najbolji start svih vremena :)
vjerojatno je suviŔno :fakjea:

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fjaka
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poker aseva :fakjea:

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Felipe
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Kontakt:
21 godina...

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Obrigado Felipe

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Ferrari1345
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Najveci :klanjam:
[ link do slike ]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e353pG_qgSo[/youtube]

i naravno, Ratzenbergera da spomenem
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[ link do slike ]
Počivajte u miru :(
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"Formula 1 je jedini sport čiji problem rjeŔavaju tako Ŕto naprave joŔ jedan problem"

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Lady
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Počivaj u miru Ayrtone...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iEHnXWsXxU[/youtube]
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fjaka
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Ferrari1345 je napisao/la:Najveci :klanjam:
moje prkno najveći.

da citiram kolegu s jednog drugog foruma:

http://www.forum.hr/showpost.php?p=5407 ... count=1111

''Nisam ja nikakav anti senna fan. Čak Å”toviÅ”e, meni je Senna simpa lik. Ono Å”to ja ne podnosim je to Å”to se od Senne učinilo nakon 01.05.1994. Prvenstveno to smatran loÅ”im i za Sennu, ali i za ostale vozače koji su bili ili dobri kao Senna ili čak bolji od njega. Ne mogu prihvatiti to uzdizanje u nebesa. Jer sam ga gledao vlastitim očima, kao i joÅ” stotine i stotine drugih jednostavno to Å”to se danas piÅ”e po medijima i način na koji se danas Sennu percipira -ne odgovara stvarnom stanju stvari. Da Senna nije poginuo, danas bi o njemu govorili kao o Jackieu Stewartu, Emersonu Fittipaldiu ili Nelsonu Piquetu. Sve sjajnim momcima, sjajnim vozačima i po dostignućima i po talentu al pari Senni, ako ne i bolji. Al jebiga nisu poginuli, pa nisu ni doživjeli Sennin status.''

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Lady
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fjaka je napisao/la:
moje prkno najveći.
Da ti neÅ”to opet kažem... NemaÅ” pojma o tome dobu i to si dokazao kroz onih par naÅ”ih rasprava koje smo vodili na ovoj temi i zato mi uopće nije jasno Å”ta se opet javljaÅ” kad nemaÅ” pojma...

Druga stvar: Gdje je tebi malo kulture? Mislim, ono... na samu godiÅ”njicu smrti ti si baÅ” morao doć i srat po ovoj temi!? Å ta nisi mogao pričekat sutra ili otvorit neku drugu temu pa da malo raspravimo o tome zaÅ”to je tebi Senna tako mrzak.

Da li si ti gledao Ayrtona za njegova života? Ako jesi, onda sigurno znaÅ” da je praktički na njegov račun i doÅ”lo do takve gledanosti Formule 1 u svijetu, a na sam račun dvoboja Senna vs Prost, gledanost se utrostručila i Formula 1 je dobila jednu nevjerovatnu popularnost. I to ti je sve bilo za njegova života. Naravno da kad jedna takva osoba pogine i to joÅ” prilikom vodstva utrke i na jedan dosta bizaran način, kasnije se stvori jedna posebna fama...., ali, Ayrton Senna je za života postao simbol čarobnjaÅ”tva za volanom i nevjerovatne brzine. Nikad poslje viÅ”e viđeno.
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fjaka
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Lady je napisao/la:...ti si baÅ” morao doć i srat po ovoj temi!?
pa ne vi konstantno serete po drugim vozačima a kad se takvo Ŕta desi meni se pali alarm :top:
...a na sam račun dvoboja Senna vs Prost, gledanost se utrostručila i Formula 1 je dobila jednu nevjerovatnu popularnost.
pa to je viÅ”e stvar bolida koji su vozili a manje njih samih, da pokuÅ”an pojednostavnit jednaka stvar bi bila da su takvog mclarena tada vozili piquet i prost ili mansell i senna ili prost i mansell ili piquet i senna...svaćaÅ”? stavit dvojicu s mudima u bolid bez premca imala bi identičan scenarij.

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fjaka
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neznan stvarno zaÅ”to van je problem napisat moj idol, moj najdraži vozač, jedan od najvećih itd itd i sve 5. nego sa svakim sjećanjem na sennu vi morate srat po vozačima iste kvalitete ili boljim od njega. daj se suzdržite.

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fjaka
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[ link do slike ]

meni jedna od jačih slika :klanjam: Ŕteta samo Ŕta je stalno bija u oblacima, da bar malo smjeŔka nabaci.

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Ferrari1345
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Pa normalno da se ono odrazilo na moje miŔljenje, o moj bože kolko ti taj Senna nabija komplekse da ga ides na ovaj dan omaložavati. Ja cijenim svacije misljenje, pogotovo kad se radi o necijem idolu, omiljenom vozacu ili "najvecem" ikada. Nek je tebi Prost ili tko vise, ali na meni nije na tome da ce ispravljam ili uvjeravam u nesto drugo. Nauci se kulturi ko prvo. Steta sto ti onaj gore post nisu izbrisali ko i tvoje nebulozne komentare na stranici.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY-flhAWD2E[/youtube]
Klasika na danasnji dan :)
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"Formula 1 je jedini sport čiji problem rjeŔavaju tako Ŕto naprave joŔ jedan problem"

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fjaka
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[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TXd0gTwL6o[/youtube]

Ŕest minuta uživancije uz jutarnju kavu :fakjea: iako u ovakvim kompilacijama preferiran zvuk motora ni stonsi u pozadini za
početak nisu loŔi :mrgreen:

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Lady
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fjaka je napisao/la:
Lady je napisao/la:...ti si baÅ” morao doć i srat po ovoj temi!?
pa ne vi konstantno serete po drugim vozačima a kad se takvo Ŕta desi meni se pali alarm :top:
...a na sam račun dvoboja Senna vs Prost, gledanost se utrostručila i Formula 1 je dobila jednu nevjerovatnu popularnost.
pa to je viÅ”e stvar bolida koji su vozili a manje njih samih, da pokuÅ”an pojednostavnit jednaka stvar bi bila da su takvog mclarena tada vozili piquet i prost ili mansell i senna ili prost i mansell ili piquet i senna...svaćaÅ”? stavit dvojicu s mudima u bolid bez premca imala bi identičan scenarij.
Ti stvarno nemaÅ” srama?!
Tko smo to mi i kad smo mi to dolazili srat po ostalim vozačima, a pogotovo na njihove obljetnice? Ne fjaka, ti si jedini bez kulture ovdje koji si doŔao na ovu temu na godiŔnjicu Sennine pogiblje i počeo srat!
Šta ti je Senna napravio? Pregazio mačku ispred vratiju? Ubio nekog??

A sad na ovo drugo: 1984 u jakom McLarenu su vozili Lauda i Prost, 1985 također, 1986 Prost je dobio prvenstvo u McL, dok su se dvojica vrhunska vozača borila u jakom Williamsu, Mansell i Piquet. 1987 Mansell i Piquet se bore u super jakom Williamsu za naslov.....
Poanta: Iako su ovo imena koja si baŔ i sam naveo u svom postu i vozili su u istoj momčadi i to jakoj momčadi, nikad se nije niti približno govorilo o njihovim dvobojima kao Ŕta se kasnije govorilo o dvoboju Senna vs Prost.

I evo ti za kraj jedan super Ayrtonov krug, ali joÅ” genijalnija mi je Prostova faca kad je vidio kakvo nevrijeme je napravio Senna..... :mrgreen:

[dailymotion]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7ut5t ... to?start=8[/dailymotion]
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Lady
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Za nevjernog @fjaku....
Investigation and trial

The Williams team was entangled for many years in a court case with the Italian prosecutors over manslaughter charges, ending in a guilty verdict for Patrick Head. The Italian Court of Appeal, on April 13, 2007, stated the following in the verdict numbered 15050: ā€œIt has been determined that the accident was caused by a steering column failure. This failure was caused by badly designed and badly executed modifications. The responsibility of this falls on Patrick Head, culpable of omitted controlā€. Even being found responsible for Senna’s accident, Patrick Head wasn’t arrested: in Italy the statute of limitation for manslaughter is 7 years and 6 months, and the final verdict was pronounced 13 years after the accident.

A 600-page technical report was submitted by Bologna University under Professor of Engineering Enrico Lorenzini and his team of specialists. The report concluded that fatigue cracks had developed through 70% of the steering column at the point where it had broken. Lorenzini stated: ā€œIt had been badly welded together about a third of the way down and couldn’t stand the strain of the race. We discovered scratches on the crack in the steering rod. It seemed like the job had been done in a hurry but I can’t say how long before the race. Someone had tried to smooth over the join following the welding. I have never seen anything like it. I believe the rod was faulty and probably cracked even during the warm-up. Moments before the crash only a tiny piece was left connected and therefore the car didn’t respond in the bend.ā€

Senna did not like the position of the steering column relative to his seating position and had repeatedly asked for it to be changed. Patrick Head and Adrian Newey agreed to Senna’s request to lengthen the FW16’s steering column, but there was no time to manufacture a longer steering shaft. The existing shaft was instead cut, extended by inserting a smaller-diameter piece of tubing and welded together with reinforcing plates. Many surmise, based on the ā€œyellow button tracking analysisā€ done in 1997 by CINECA that the movement of the steering wheel during the final seconds into Tamburello was abnormal. A reference point (yellow button) on the onboard video is seen to move several centimetres in its own plane, due to the steering wheel moving up and down, indicating a fully or partially buckled steering column.

Williams released its own video to prove the movement was normal by Coulthard manhandling an FW16B steering wheel, yet the effort required by Coulthard to deflect the wheel in the demonstration is termed to be ā€œquite considerableā€. The nature of Tamburello requiring a light and anticipatory grip on the wheel (because of the high speed and bumps) coupled with Senna’s slight frame causes some to question whether or not the movement of the yellow button was indeed as ā€œnormalā€ as Williams has claimed.

No known analysis has been done on the tracking of the yellow button at other laps of the FW16 around Imola or other racing circuits.

During the trials, Fabrizio Nosco, a Regional technical commissioner, testified that both of the vehicle’s black boxes were intact, except for minor scratches. He said ā€œI have seen thousands of these devices and removed them for checks. The two boxes were intact, even though they had some scratches. The Williams device looked to have survived the crash.ā€. In a move that apparently breached FIA regulations, Charles Whiting, a FIA official, handed the black boxes to Williams before the regulating body’s own investigation into the accident. Williams claimed the black boxes were unreadable, and the boxes returned for the court proceedings were indeed unreadable, a full month after the accident. The black boxes might have put to rest the cause of the accident.

At the conclusion of the Italian trial, Senna’s FW16, chassis number 02, was returned to the Williams team. The team reported that the car was in an advanced state of deterioration and was subsequently destroyed. The car’s engine was returned to Renault, and its fate is unknown.

His death was considered by many of his Brazilian fans to be a national tragedy, and the Brazilian government declared three days of national mourning. Senna is buried at the Cemitério do Morumbi in his hometown of São Paulo.
http://www.sennafiles.com/ayrton-senna/ ... and-trial/
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fjaka
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fjaka
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@lady kad kliknem na link s kojeg je kopipejstano vodi me na nekakav senna fan sajt,

naklapanja senna fanbojsića niÅ”ta drugo. williams je btw iznio svoju verziju koja nije pobijena.

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fjaka
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nekako san skloniji virovat damonu hillu koji je taj isti dan vozio taj isti bolid nego naklapanjima je ovo je ono.

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Lady
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Pročitala sam članak i mogu reć samo da je nepotpun. Zanima me zaÅ”to autor nije stavio sve moguće teorije oko Senninog izljetanja iz Tamburela. Interesantno je kako je stavio citata Damona Hilla koji je na suđenju naglo dobio amneziju i viÅ”e se ničega nije sjećao, dok 10 godina kasnije pili kako je Senna pogrijeÅ”io.
Evo Hillovog svjedočenja sa suđenja:
1997 June 4

On Monday June 2, three years after the death of his team mate, Damon Hill was in Imola to give evidence regarding Senna's fatal crash.

Before chief prosecutor Maurizio Passarini could begin his examination, Michael Breen, Hill's lawyer, asked for the eviction of television crews from the courtroom. Time passed as those involved argued with judge Antonio Costanzo about their rights before they were finally removed.

Somewhere en-route, however, Hill seemingly left part of his memory behind, although he did confirm that alterations were made to the steering column of the FW16 Williams driven both by himself and Senna in the 1994 season.

Passarini wanted to know when exactly the steering column had been modified.

"I don't know exactly," Hill replied. "I think it was before we went to the first test, but I can't be sure."

Before the first race of the season, then?

"I can't remember the exact date. I seem to remember it being done before we ran the car. In other words, before it went to a racetrack."

Before the beginning of the championship then?

"Yes", a stony faced Hill replied.

When had he known about the modification?

"Because I don't know when it was done, I can't tell you. I was made aware that it had been done."

Did he remember who had informed him of it?

"No."

Passarini then asked if he would confirm that in 1994 the FW16 ran with power steering?

"Yes, it did."

He was asked if he could remember if the car had power steering in 1993?

"I don't remember."

Passarini then told Hill that by the statement he gave to him (Passarini) in June, 1994. the system was new for 1994.

"In the two previous races in 1994, did you race with or without the power steering?" asked Maurizio Passarini.

"I honestly don't remember."

"And at the San Marino Grand Prix, did you have a chance to talk to Senna about the car? As far as you know, did he complain about his car?"

"I don't remember," Hill replied, yet again…
Selective amnesia


Asked about the modifications, Hill said, "We found it very tight in the car, in my case, the problem was that there was very little room between myself and the steering wheel."

He could not remember whether Senna had complained about the handling of his car after the steering column modification, although he could remember details of a meeting he attended with the Williams team.

He said he reached his conclusion about the oversteer after replaying the video footage at a meeting with Williams engineers at the teams Didcot headquarters less than a week after the tragedy.

More than an hour was spent viewing the film from Senna's on-board camera and Hill was then invited to comment upon it.

He appeared reluctant to be categorical but remarked: "There are two distinct times where the car looks to be oversteering and the steering wheel is exactly the way I would expect to see it to correct oversteer."

Asked whether the apparent oversteer in Senna's car was due to low tyre pressure or the state of the Imola track, Hill answered:

"You cannot separate the two, my idea looking at it is that the car seems to oversteer when it crosses the place on the circuit where there are some marks."

Hill's testimony appears to support that of Williams defence lawyers who in March claimed that Senna's death was due to anomalies in the asphalt track surface.

Hill also undermined another of the prosecution's claims - that the FOCA had failed to supply the complete film shot by the camera inboard Senna's car - stating that the footage he saw during the meeting at Williams also ended before Senna's car left the track.

When faced with a bombardment of questions from state prosecutor Maurizio Passarini, Hill repeatedly answered:

"I cannot remember, it was too long ago."

However his memory returned when the chief prosecutor persisted with the prosecution teams' charges that a weld made to shorten the column snapped moments before impact.

"I came away from the meeting with the opinion that there must have been some other reason for the accident other than the obvious one that there had been a failure in the steering," Hill told the court.

Hill said that he had not experienced any problems with oversteer at the San Marino Grand Prix, but added that Patrick Head had told him to switch off his power steering as he waited on the grid, after Senna's accident, and the restart of the race.

The power steering could be activated from the cockpit.

"It was obvious at the restart that they wanted to be sure things were all right in the car. I didn't ask for a reason. I just did what I was told," Hill said.
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Lady
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fjaka je napisao/la:@lady kad kliknem na link s kojeg je kopipejstano vodi me na nekakav senna fan sajt,

naklapanja senna fanbojsića niÅ”ta drugo. williams je btw iznio svoju verziju koja nije pobijena.
To ti je Senna files. Vjerovatno ti nisi nikad čuo za to.... pročitaj malo bolje pa ćeÅ” vidijet da ti je to sa naknadnog suđenja gdje je Patrich Head proglaÅ”en krivim, ali zbog zastare nije iÅ”ao u zatvor.

Evo ti i link sa prijaÅ”njeg suđenja: (samo dio o Damonu Hillu koji sam pisala prije)

http://www.ayrton-senna.com/s-files/newsfle5.html
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